Yes, the key word is "needlessly". If the war was needless then any small gestures seem hypocritical. Would you want someone who abused you horribly to come with condolences? Or would you feel this adds insult to injury?
And even if the war was needed, Rumsfeld planned it badly. (And he had all the time he needed to plan it properly -- he was the first to know it'll happen, he'd make sure it did!) I'm sure he has enough armor around him when he travels to Iraq. But he has told soldiers "why do you want armor, it won't protect you anyway". People are maimed because of his neglect, and now he comes with condolences?
When people say "Saddam should have been removed" it's as if the removal was the only consequence of the war. The question isn't "should have been removed or not" but "is the removal worth the cost", and the cost must include things such as the lowering of barrier to starting wars.
Also, the letter reminds me of "Lenin i pechnik". Which I think we can all agree was propaganda.
So, you think it is propaganda. I can agree with that.
This letter was pro-Rumsfeld (and pro-war etc), and it was honest. I saw honest letters that were anti-Rumsfeld and amti-war etc; I am sure you too have read such letters. Are they propaganda?
(I am skipping the references to Rumsfeld's alleged mishandling of the war preparation.)
I'm not sure what you're trying to determine. The word "propaganda" connotes unfair use/presentation of information, where the aim is not to find the truth but to achieve a pre-determined effect. Fahrenheit 9/11 was definitely propaganda. Here, the _letter_ itself seems heartfelt and isn't propaganda. But the use of the letter to paint Rumsfeld as a caring guy is propaganda.
>I am skipping the references to Rumsfeld's alleged mishandling of the war preparation.
Well I think they're most relevant here. If he did mishandle the war, he loses the moral right to pose for photo-ops with wounded soldiers.
I agree with the first part, but disagree with the second one. If a soldier wants to express his support to Rumsfeld, the latter should accept it, unless he himself thinks he is not deserving of it.
Well, it seems that notestaff is saying something else: Rumsfeld lost the moral right to ask for this soldier's support, not the legal right to accept it. BTW, as I recall, Rumsfeld was pretty reluctant in accepting the soldier's support, or even his hand, or even reluctant to talk to him in the first place. Although that may be not beucase he feels guilty, but simply because he's mean and green (a version I choose to accept and propagate), or lacks personal touch, or something like that.
>Rumsfeld lost the moral right to ask for this soldier's support
Not the right to ask for support. The right to flaunt this support before the telecameras. If Rumsfeld wants to show he cares about soldiers, he should first do all he can for their practical needs. If he didn't do that then his expressions of concern look fake, even if inside of him he feels he's being sincere.
And now let's see why we are all so high about the issue.
Insufficient troop protection. This is being reported by the press, right? Like the shark attacks a few years back, this is the news of the hour, a hot topic.
It would be natural to expect the Army to spin the issue as if there were no armor deficiency (which is not what they are saying), or as if there were nothing unusual about it (which is what they are saying). It is, unfortunately, just as natural to expect the press to spin it the other way, as a blunder on the part of the Secretary of Defence.
Now I have two questions. First: how do we get through the spin and get to know which way it is? Ans second: how do we get to know if this issue is important at all?
>The main goal is for me to decide how much trust to put into sources that do propaganda without lying.
There is no such thing as completely dispassionate reporting, reports are written by humans with opinions. You can only ask for sources that are "more" fact-based, not those that don't give any coloring to the reports.
>I think this is propaganda. :-)
No, it's a valid point. "Caring" for someone is expressed in deeds, not just words. So _if_ Rumsfeld did endanger soldiers needlessly (even in a needed war), his expressions of concern for soldiers ring hollow, and the whole interpretation of the incident described in the letter changes. And using the incident to portray Rumsfeld as a caring guy becomes all the more offensive propaganda.
But you are right: now this if is the key word. And it's a big if. (See what I just wrote in an answer to turgutbakmak up the thread.)
As for dispassionate reporting, of course this is rarely even possible. But often the way the spin works can be understood and then the text unspinned, so to speak. Yet sometimes the "unspinning" does not yield any useful information: whatever was there is getting lost in the process. In my experience, propaganda pieces are often constructed like that.
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And even if the war was needed, Rumsfeld planned it badly. (And he had all the time he needed to plan it properly -- he was the first to know it'll happen, he'd make sure it did!) I'm sure he has enough armor around him when he travels to Iraq. But he has told soldiers "why do you want armor, it won't protect you anyway". People are maimed because of his neglect, and now he comes with condolences?
When people say "Saddam should have been removed" it's as if the removal was the only consequence of the war. The question isn't "should have been removed or not" but "is the removal worth the cost", and the cost must include things such as the lowering of barrier to starting wars.
Also, the letter reminds me of "Lenin i pechnik". Which I think we can all agree was propaganda.
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This letter was pro-Rumsfeld (and pro-war etc), and it was honest. I saw honest letters that were anti-Rumsfeld and amti-war etc; I am sure you too have read such letters. Are they propaganda?
(I am skipping the references to Rumsfeld's alleged mishandling of the war preparation.)
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The word "propaganda" connotes unfair use/presentation of information, where the aim is not to find the truth but to achieve a pre-determined effect. Fahrenheit 9/11 was definitely propaganda.
Here, the _letter_ itself seems heartfelt and isn't propaganda.
But the use of the letter to paint Rumsfeld as a caring guy is propaganda.
>I am skipping the references to Rumsfeld's alleged mishandling of the war preparation.
Well I think they're most relevant here. If he did mishandle the war, he loses the moral right to pose for photo-ops with wounded soldiers.
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Not the right to ask for support. The right to flaunt this support before the telecameras. If Rumsfeld wants to show he cares about soldiers, he should first do all he can for their practical needs. If he didn't do that then his expressions of concern look fake, even if inside of him he feels he's being sincere.
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Armor deficiency
Insufficient troop protection. This is being reported by the press, right? Like the shark attacks a few years back, this is the news of the hour, a hot topic.
It would be natural to expect the Army to spin the issue as if there were no armor deficiency (which is not what they are saying), or as if there were nothing unusual about it (which is what they are saying). It is, unfortunately, just as natural to expect the press to spin it the other way, as a blunder on the part of the Secretary of Defence.
Now I have two questions. First: how do we get through the spin and get to know which way it is? Ans second: how do we get to know if this issue is important at all?
I am still trying to figure it out.
Re: Armor deficiency
Kinda reminds me of this famous exchange about what Goldfinger expects of James Bond.
The whole war
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I explained this in an answer to
>I am skipping the references to Rumsfeld's alleged mishandling of the war preparation.
Well I think they're most relevant here. If he did mishandle the war, he loses the moral right to pose for photo-ops with wounded soldiers.
I think this is propaganda. :-)
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There is no such thing as completely dispassionate reporting, reports are written by humans with opinions. You can only ask for sources that are "more" fact-based, not those that don't give any coloring to the reports.
>I think this is propaganda. :-)
No, it's a valid point. "Caring" for someone is expressed in deeds, not just words. So _if_ Rumsfeld did endanger soldiers needlessly (even in a needed war), his expressions of concern for soldiers ring hollow, and the whole interpretation of the incident described in the letter changes. And using the incident to portray Rumsfeld as a caring guy becomes all the more offensive propaganda.
no subject
As for dispassionate reporting, of course this is rarely even possible. But often the way the spin works can be understood and then the text unspinned, so to speak. Yet sometimes the "unspinning" does not yield any useful information: whatever was there is getting lost in the process. In my experience, propaganda pieces are often constructed like that.