Koran

[cema]

One of the two books I have honestly tried to read and could not. (The other one is Moby Dick.)

Some chapters start with alif-lam-mim. As they say, nobody but Allah knows their meaning.

I joked that perhaps they mean "take it with a grain of salt". A guy nearby, a devout Muslim, went furious. He said something along the lines of "if we had not been colleagues I would have to [destroy] you" (we were both grad students at the time). He did not say "destroy" but some other word to that effect, I am not sure which one, maybe "kill". He knew I was joking but he was deeply offended.

I think people have a right to be offended if they choose so. And they have a right to joke if they choose so.

They have a right to defend themselves when they are threatened. I told him I would defend myself.

Maybe he felt threatened by the joke? Could be. His problem.

(My opinion.)

Comments

[mme-n-b.livejournal.com]

Sometimes a joke sounds offensive when not intended to be, especially when made in a language not native for either speaker or listener. Given that - everyone has the right to joke and to be offended and to act on one's offense through non-violent means.

[cema.livejournal.com]

Yes, non-violent. That's why I was careful to emphasize I do not remember the action word he used. (And, of course, he did not try to do anything to me, as far as I know.)

[mme-n-b.livejournal.com]

Thing is, the whole "if you were not... I'd have to kill you" is a staple, словоблок, and as such isn't really meaningful.

re: take it with a grain of salt!

[roman-kr.livejournal.com]

Замени на ету и получи удовольствие...
http://www.amazon.com/Satanic-Verses-Novel-Bestselling-Backlist/dp/0312270828

[cema.livejournal.com]

I think in order to fully appreciate Rushdie's book I need to get a better background in Muslim culture in general. I do not expect that to happen in the near future; maybe later.

[v888.livejournal.com]

actually, with that particular book you learn as you go

[kroha376.livejournal.com]

Для одних Коран - дорога к бесконечному блаженству, для других - камень преткновения :)

[cema.livejournal.com]

Дорога к бесконечному блаженству, вымощенная камнями преткновения!

[luzhin.livejournal.com]

Aren't they all? Вымощены, я имею в виду.

[uropb-cbl.livejournal.com]

Каламбурист ты наш...философский! :)

[ati.livejournal.com]

до этого видимо лежавших за пазухой у жителей стеклянного дома

[seminarist.livejournal.com]

They say it is exquisitely beautiful in the original Arabic. As any good poetry, it must be frustratingly untranslatable.

[cema.livejournal.com]

That's what they say, yes.

I doubt it.

[seminarist.livejournal.com]

Any particular reason?

[chaource.livejournal.com]

Indeed, one often hears that it is very beautifil in Arabic. I have an explanation for that: people who hear it in Arabic tend to hear it thousands of times, and often they have to memorize large parts of it, too, while still young. If you are exposed to something in such huge quantities at a young age, you are bound to believe that it is supremely beautiful. This is a purely psychological effect. This happens to music, too (people like music they heard when they were young). For the same reason, most children perceive their parents' faces as beautiful (but not the faces of other adults). In my view, it would be useless to look for any "objective" beauty in there.

[chaource.livejournal.com]

I believe that there is no universal right of "not being offended" or of "having no hurt feelings". If your colleague is hurt by the fact that you are joing about the Holy Something, it's strictly his problem. He is free to stop talking to you, while you are free to make your jokes. Such are the customs of our land.

[nbasya.livejournal.com]

Devout Muslims don't like this kind of jokes. They can't take them.

[uropb-cbl.livejournal.com]

Ой! Доведет тебя твой язык....

[cema.livejournal.com]

Мой язык мне нужен в основном чтобы различать людей, близких мне по духу, и остальных.

[whocares1970.livejournal.com]

"Мoй сoсед - эсэсoвец. Я скaзaл. чтo фюреру нa пoртрете мoжнo бы пририсoвaть бoрoдку. A oн схвaтился зa кинжaл." Ну дa, примернo тaк.

A вoт нетерпимoсть пo oтнoшению к юмoру - этo их слaбoсть, дa. Пoэтoму oни тaк и нaкинулись нa кaрикaтуры.

[mme-n-b.livejournal.com]

Мой сосед еврей. Я рассказал анекдот про Анну Франк, а он обиделся, и полез бить мне морду.
Он дурак, да, но ведь не только он.

[chaource.livejournal.com]

Initial, disjoined letters introduce 29 chapters of the Qur'ân. Different chapters begin with different letters: Alîf Lâm Mîm... Kâf Hâ Yâ... `Ayn Sâd... Tâ Sîn Mîm... among other combinations. People often wonder about their meaning. In truth, we cannot ascribe any particular meaning to these letters. Any particular meaning that these letters might have is known only to Allah. Ibn Kathîr, in his Tafsîr, informs us that Abu Bakr, `Umar, `Uthman, `Ali and Ibn Mas`ud all said that "the disjoined letters in the beginning of some chapters are among those things about which Allah has reserved knowledge to Himself." (From http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-262-3440.htm)

I have a hypothesis: these are the initials of the authors of the individual chapters.

[cema.livejournal.com]

Or scribes. Could be, of course. Certainly I was not serious when I was talking about salt.

[boris71.livejournal.com]

Most recently someplace else on the internet an educated man whom I happen to know personally produced a rather unsuccessful joke on Rosh haShana greetings. I was offended, told him so, he apologized, end of story.

Although I can see how this rather passing incident could have developed to a big fight.

I have learned some time ago that the way the mind of deeply religious people works is simply different than that of mine. Although I do have certain acquaintance with certain (let me use word) 'aspects' (here) of Judaism, so it is likely that my mind works a bit differently than a mind of totally irreligious person. Please notice, irreligious is not the same as atheist.

In fact, the notion of "mutual" (be it respect or offenseless kidding) is often very slick and slippery to grasp.

(My opinion.)

[cema.livejournal.com]

Different religions work in different ways. There are Buddhist traditions of making fun of Buddha. Arguing is often encouraged in Judaism.

There are also differences in how strangers are perceived and approached.

In any case, he may live according to his world view; I can live according to mine.