Condy versus Hillary

[cema]

⇒ The disagreements and problems that dogged Miss Rice's trip were in stark contrast to the experience of Hillary Clinton, the US Senator and wife of President Bill Clinton, who was visiting Israel at the same time.

Mrs Clinton, who is widely tipped as the next Democrat candidate for the White House, was well received at a number of events.

Has the campaign started already? Condoleeza Rice versus Hillary Clinton? Catfight! Catfight!

Update. Funny thing, most of the people who replied belong to the right of the political spectrum. What about the left, progressive, democratic side? Aren't they looking forward to see Hillary versus Condy? Or, in case a catfight does not appeal to them, maybe they could suggest something more exciting? I may have a couple of ideas.

Update. Finally, a solid, I would say definitely progressive plan!

Comments

[solomon2.livejournal.com]

Well, do I really have to explain the difference between respectability and electability to you? Can you name a single position on a single issue that Condi can call her own? Any memorable quotation from her speeches or writings perchance?

Don't get me wrong, I think Condi is a good bureaucrat, but not much more than that. I would say she is too good to be an effective politician. This is the general problem with conservatives though: they are not ruthless enough.

The republicans must stop indulging in wishful thinking. Clittary is in for a kill!

[arbat.livejournal.com]

"do I really have to explain the difference between respectability and electability to you?"

I am not really interested. The last time I've heard the word "electability" was when it was used to explain why Democrats selected Kerry as their candidate.

Also, when you say that Condi is a "good bureaucrat, but not much more than that"... You see, the fact that you have never heard or read anything she said may not necessarily mean she had never said anything. Just an idea.

[solomon2.livejournal.com]

>You see, the fact that you have never heard or read anything she said

Consider me an average voter ;-)

[anhinga-anhinga.livejournal.com]

> Any memorable quotation from her speeches or writings perchance?

That's easy.

"In real life, power and values are married completely."

But I agree with you, she is probably not electable. She is indeed too good to be an effective politician. What she writes is for "thinking Americans", but "one needs a majority" :-) :-(

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021001-6.html

"There is an old argument between the so-called "realistic" school of foreign affairs and the "idealistic" school. To oversimplify, realists downplay the importance of values and the internal structures of states, emphasizing instead the balance of power as the key to stability and peace. Idealists emphasize the primacy of values, such as freedom and democracy and human rights in ensuring that just political order is obtained. As a professor, I recognize that this debate has won tenure for and sustained the careers of many generations of scholars. As a policymaker, I can tell you that these categories obscure reality.

In real life, power and values are married completely. Power matters in the conduct of world affairs. Great powers matter a great deal -- they have the ability to influence the lives of millions and change history. And the values of great powers matter as well. If the Soviet Union had won the Cold War, the world would look very different today -- Germany today might look like the old German Democratic Republic, or Latin America like Cuba."

Nice try, but no cigar

[solomon2.livejournal.com]

>If the Soviet Union had won the Cold War, the world would look very different today

Talk about originality of thought! BTW, the statement "In real life, power and values are married completely." does not quite cut it as a bon mot. First, is there such a thing as a partial marriage? Second, we do have two separate factors (power and values), relative importance and interplay of which are interesting. To say that both are indeed important is not very informative...

Re: Nice try, but no cigar

[anhinga-anhinga.livejournal.com]

> To say that both are indeed important is not very informative

"As a policymaker, I can tell you that these categories obscure reality."

Information is there, but the readers/listeners are supposed to make the final inference on their own (for a number of reasons).

I see this as a key to the choices the Administration was making: it was looking for the situations when the considerations of power and the considerations of values dictated the same actions, and the actions selected under this criterion were exactly the actions which were actually performed. It looks like doing it this way was/is the explicit policy guiding the decision process in this Administration, and it is actually innovative.

Re: Nice try, but no cigar

[solomon2.livejournal.com]

>It looks like doing it this way was/is the explicit policy guiding the decision process in this Administration

I hope not! Rambling about values when the question is decided by the appropriate application of power sounds like a recipe for disaster (which the Iraq affair is shaping up to be BTW)

Re: Nice try, but no cigar

[anhinga-anhinga.livejournal.com]

Perhaps this is not the right policy. Certainly many people think that the Iraq affair is screwed up by the excessive value-based considerations... So you might object to Condi not only based on the considerations of electability, but because you disagree with her approach :-) You certainly sound here like a member of the "realistic" school of foreign affairs...

I am not sure myself (which is my ordinary state of being anyway :-) ). Although this policy looks very attractive to me if it can work :-)

But I am reasonably confident that it is the actual policy. Note that the main goal of this speech is to help the professionals to understand what is the real meaning of this bland document called National Security Strategy, without saying politically unacceptable things. The message seems to be quite unambiguous... And the assumption that this is the actual policy seems to explain many "empirical observations" during the last few years.

[cema.livejournal.com]

Seems to be a very neocon approach, by the way. (Condi's, I mean.)

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, one can say this is somewhat neoconservative in spirit, although "true neocoservative" is probably more towards the "idealistic" school of thought.

This ("Condi's") approach is also fairly minimalistic in a number of areas, because where "power" and "values" suggest different actions, this government does not do anything at all. This (selective) minimalism sometimes creates an impression of libertarian/small government leanings ;-)

[anhinga-anhinga.livejournal.com]

Oops, what happened to my login?

[cema.livejournal.com]

I didn't do anything. :-)

[anhinga-anhinga.livejournal.com]

Who else could have done it? :-)

[cema.livejournal.com]

Have we passed through Singularity already?

[anhinga-anhinga.livejournal.com]

;-) No, it's about 7 years off (+/- 2) ;-)

[cema.livejournal.com]

So it was not that, then.

[anhinga-anhinga.livejournal.com]

> > Seems to be a very neocon approach, by the way. (Condi's, I mean.)

> Yes, one can say this is somewhat neoconservative in spirit, although "true neocoservative" is probably more towards the "idealistic" school of thought

I think I want to amend this. I think that "true neoconservative" is strictly "idealistic" school of thought as long as foreign affairs are concerned.

Condi tries for the "perfect balance" between realism and idealism.

[cema.livejournal.com]

I don't think a truly pure position is even possible.

What would you call Hillary's position then?

[anhinga-anhinga.livejournal.com]

> I don't think a truly pure position is even possible

It's not. There is a real-life spectrum, and true neocons are on the idealistic end of this real-life spectrum.

> Hill

Ad hoc/eclectic/can't care less/abusive as in "abuse the foreign policy decisions to facilitate goals of attaining/strengthening personal power at home, ignore the substance"...

[cema.livejournal.com]

I would like to see the catfight. Then we would know Hillary's position!

[anhinga-anhinga.livejournal.com]

positions

and the number of the positions will be proportional to the square root of the duration of the catfight :-)

[cema.livejournal.com]

It won't be truly random. However, I am certain neither would be defeated or give up easily.

[anhinga-anhinga.livejournal.com]

I'd love to see the catfight too, although I am a bit ashamed to share this desire with one of the most disgusting DC characters :-)

[cema.livejournal.com]

Well, Dick is not a wholesome character, all right, but I have not seen catfight mentioned anywhere in the reviews. Is it buried deep in the corners of the book pages? Or did he not dare say it out loudly and proudly, that the next president of the United States shall be selected in a fighting ring?

[cema.livejournal.com]

Yes, cigar. Cigar, I say! And a catfight!

:-)